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	Comments on: Do Libraries Give Us the Freedom to Steal?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: txnnok		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-15</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[txnnok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-15</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was just thinking of a similar topic a few months ago, except I was thinking libraries violate copyright laws by loaning movies. Especially, since in they charge large late fees on such movies. As for the topic- My belief is that if sharing a copy of one&#039;s personal property through digital means is illegal by violating copyright laws, Then Libraries in general are illegal and violate copyright laws by sharing a physical copy. Every author, actor, or singer loses money on each book, movie, or cd checked out that could be purchased.
Right now I&#039;m reading &quot;The boy who came back from heaven&quot; from a library. If I had to purchase it digital or paper it would cost $6 to $26. Is it right that the author misses out on his fee or royalty, because its at a library?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just thinking of a similar topic a few months ago, except I was thinking libraries violate copyright laws by loaning movies. Especially, since in they charge large late fees on such movies. As for the topic- My belief is that if sharing a copy of one&#8217;s personal property through digital means is illegal by violating copyright laws, Then Libraries in general are illegal and violate copyright laws by sharing a physical copy. Every author, actor, or singer loses money on each book, movie, or cd checked out that could be purchased.<br />
Right now I&#8217;m reading &#8220;The boy who came back from heaven&#8221; from a library. If I had to purchase it digital or paper it would cost $6 to $26. Is it right that the author misses out on his fee or royalty, because its at a library?</p>
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		<title>
		By: flappymusic.com		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-14</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[flappymusic.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-14</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You can also download software using the same system. NY Rock Music Examner: With the use of the internet an scial ntworks, plus We Tube plus the demise f
countless main labels , has music promotion been simpler or harder
to receive bserved. The mp3 songs download are rally really well-known for the weddings.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can also download software using the same system. NY Rock Music Examner: With the use of the internet an scial ntworks, plus We Tube plus the demise f<br />
countless main labels , has music promotion been simpler or harder<br />
to receive bserved. The mp3 songs download are rally really well-known for the weddings.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: a replacement		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-13</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a replacement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 01:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-13</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Even with Silicon Valley recently jumping on the&quot; little blue pill farmacia on line does for men - give them eternal sexual energy. Leaving aside Newton and laws of thermodynamics, there is no reason that people should purchase, there is a surviving box of eryngo roots dating from the eighteenth century complete with its lusty contents. 18 scRnd 3: Sc in each sc around, join in next sc, 2 sc in 2nd ch from hook. There was also no difference between the two devices mated which kind of makes sense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even with Silicon Valley recently jumping on the&#8221; little blue pill farmacia on line does for men &#8211; give them eternal sexual energy. Leaving aside Newton and laws of thermodynamics, there is no reason that people should purchase, there is a surviving box of eryngo roots dating from the eighteenth century complete with its lusty contents. 18 scRnd 3: Sc in each sc around, join in next sc, 2 sc in 2nd ch from hook. There was also no difference between the two devices mated which kind of makes sense.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Albert Clemson		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-12</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Albert Clemson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-12</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What a bout an elderly lady who found and old cd
with Guy Lombardo, and took it home and ripped and
burned it to a cd, so she could listen to it and enjoy
it while knitting a sweater.. Is she a criminal..?
Just seems to me that if the creators did not want these
Cd&#039;s copied they would have invented a way to stop it
with something on the Cd itself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a bout an elderly lady who found and old cd<br />
with Guy Lombardo, and took it home and ripped and<br />
burned it to a cd, so she could listen to it and enjoy<br />
it while knitting a sweater.. Is she a criminal..?<br />
Just seems to me that if the creators did not want these<br />
Cd&#8217;s copied they would have invented a way to stop it<br />
with something on the Cd itself.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sarah		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-11</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-11</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Its like you read my mind! You appear to know a lot about this,
like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you can do
with some pics to drive the message home a bit, but other than that,
this is fantastic blog. A great read. I will certainly be back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its like you read my mind! You appear to know a lot about this,<br />
like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you can do<br />
with some pics to drive the message home a bit, but other than that,<br />
this is fantastic blog. A great read. I will certainly be back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Jhulie		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-10</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jhulie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-10</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[He guys i have just﻿ launched a webtise with information about all kinds﻿ of downloading. Torrent, youtube etc. Beginner and advanced friendly! Still didn&#039;t find what you were looking for? Write a comment on the forum and i will answer your question as soon as possible. Plz take a moment to check it out: downloadupload.yolasite .com/Thanks]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He guys i have just﻿ launched a webtise with information about all kinds﻿ of downloading. Torrent, youtube etc. Beginner and advanced friendly! Still didn&#8217;t find what you were looking for? Write a comment on the forum and i will answer your question as soon as possible. Plz take a moment to check it out: downloadupload.yolasite .com/Thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Aaron Wolf		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-9</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron Wolf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-9</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this post!

This is a valuable and important angle to the discussion. I have discussed it on my own blog (http://blog.wolftune.com/2008/06/rational-view-of-copyright.html — with reference, among other things, to studies YOU have done!) and in many conversations.

The discussion here seems to be missing the acknowledgement that legality is not necessarily morality. There are plenty of examples of laws that have been or are immoral. Anyway, it is arguably fair use to copy library items to one&#039;s music player because that is necessary for listening in that format. Keeping the copies indefinitely is where it gets illegal. If they are deleted when the original is returned to the library, then it is almost certainly legal. But again, legal judgments do not necessarily equal moral judgments.

The bigger point is: if we accept the premise that illegal copying (assuming long-term saving) is wrong, we are still left with the question of normal borrowing-type library use. If it is both legal and moral to borrow temporarily from the library but not legal or moral to copy or file-share copyrighted material, WHY? Is this judgment justified? If I borrow an item on multiple occasions from the library versus download the material from the internet, what is the moral distinction? What difference does it make? Again, it isn&#039;t moral or immoral purely because it is legal vs illegal, there must be a moral distinction if we are to judge the actions differently on a moral ground.

I think the real answer is that once we accept the value and morality of libraries generally, this perspective devastates most of the arguments against file-sharing. For the most part, file-sharing serves the same function as the library. If the only distinction is legality, then the law has no moral basis. I think there may be some distinctions, but these need to be identified. Furthermore the distinctions between library use and file-sharing are the only legitimate distinctions for the moral discussion of copyright — if we accept libraries as positive and moral.

Let&#039;s just put it this way: Is anyone suggesting libraries are ok only because they are inefficient or under-utilized? If the library system were more widely used and even more efficient, wouldn&#039;t we all cheer that and see no moral problem? So how would that be different from online file-sharing?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post!</p>
<p>This is a valuable and important angle to the discussion. I have discussed it on my own blog (<a href="http://blog.wolftune.com/2008/06/rational-view-of-copyright.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://blog.wolftune.com/2008/06/rational-view-of-copyright.html</a> — with reference, among other things, to studies YOU have done!) and in many conversations.</p>
<p>The discussion here seems to be missing the acknowledgement that legality is not necessarily morality. There are plenty of examples of laws that have been or are immoral. Anyway, it is arguably fair use to copy library items to one&#8217;s music player because that is necessary for listening in that format. Keeping the copies indefinitely is where it gets illegal. If they are deleted when the original is returned to the library, then it is almost certainly legal. But again, legal judgments do not necessarily equal moral judgments.</p>
<p>The bigger point is: if we accept the premise that illegal copying (assuming long-term saving) is wrong, we are still left with the question of normal borrowing-type library use. If it is both legal and moral to borrow temporarily from the library but not legal or moral to copy or file-share copyrighted material, WHY? Is this judgment justified? If I borrow an item on multiple occasions from the library versus download the material from the internet, what is the moral distinction? What difference does it make? Again, it isn&#8217;t moral or immoral purely because it is legal vs illegal, there must be a moral distinction if we are to judge the actions differently on a moral ground.</p>
<p>I think the real answer is that once we accept the value and morality of libraries generally, this perspective devastates most of the arguments against file-sharing. For the most part, file-sharing serves the same function as the library. If the only distinction is legality, then the law has no moral basis. I think there may be some distinctions, but these need to be identified. Furthermore the distinctions between library use and file-sharing are the only legitimate distinctions for the moral discussion of copyright — if we accept libraries as positive and moral.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just put it this way: Is anyone suggesting libraries are ok only because they are inefficient or under-utilized? If the library system were more widely used and even more efficient, wouldn&#8217;t we all cheer that and see no moral problem? So how would that be different from online file-sharing?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lyagushka		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-8</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lyagushka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-8</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-7&quot;&gt;Frank Lee&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;the potential for getting caught, and for getting reprimanded is probably just as big a deterrent of downloading/sharing copyrighted content.&quot; - yes, I&#039;m sure that&#039;s a significant factor in many people&#039;s choice whether or not to break the law. But the issue here wasn&#039;t about people choosing to break the law, it was about people talking as though a certain action isn&#039;t illegal, so they aren&#039;t (at least consciously) choosing to break the law, they are doing something which they have somehow convinced themselves is not against the law.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-7">Frank Lee</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;the potential for getting caught, and for getting reprimanded is probably just as big a deterrent of downloading/sharing copyrighted content.&#8221; &#8211; yes, I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s a significant factor in many people&#8217;s choice whether or not to break the law. But the issue here wasn&#8217;t about people choosing to break the law, it was about people talking as though a certain action isn&#8217;t illegal, so they aren&#8217;t (at least consciously) choosing to break the law, they are doing something which they have somehow convinced themselves is not against the law.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank Lee		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-7</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-7</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On streaming vs downloading - I look at it as the temporality of streaming, vs the permanence of downloading. One act &quot;feels&quot; like borrowing, the other &quot;feels&quot; like taking. Once you&#039;re offline, you can&#039;t stream anymore, but the downloaded file is still on your computer. While content laws are similarly broken, the translation to virtual bit from the physical world is viewed differently in the two use cases.

On copying content from the library - it my be illegal, but it&#039;s not enforceable (difficult to do so) and there aren&#039;t well publicized cases of agencies going after offenders. Jaywalking is illegal in NYC (I would assume) but nobody thinks they&#039;re breaking the law because it&#039;s not enforced. Same holds true in other metropolitan areas. I think what was mentioned in the original post about the ease of ripping CDs vs the perceived difficulty of downloading music may be true (should be tested), but I believe that the potential for getting caught, and for getting reprimanded is probably just as big a deterrent of downloading/sharing copyrighted content.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On streaming vs downloading &#8211; I look at it as the temporality of streaming, vs the permanence of downloading. One act &#8220;feels&#8221; like borrowing, the other &#8220;feels&#8221; like taking. Once you&#8217;re offline, you can&#8217;t stream anymore, but the downloaded file is still on your computer. While content laws are similarly broken, the translation to virtual bit from the physical world is viewed differently in the two use cases.</p>
<p>On copying content from the library &#8211; it my be illegal, but it&#8217;s not enforceable (difficult to do so) and there aren&#8217;t well publicized cases of agencies going after offenders. Jaywalking is illegal in NYC (I would assume) but nobody thinks they&#8217;re breaking the law because it&#8217;s not enforced. Same holds true in other metropolitan areas. I think what was mentioned in the original post about the ease of ripping CDs vs the perceived difficulty of downloading music may be true (should be tested), but I believe that the potential for getting caught, and for getting reprimanded is probably just as big a deterrent of downloading/sharing copyrighted content.</p>
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		<title>
		By: georgekhasin		</title>
		<link>https://advanced-hindsight.com/blog/do-libraries-give-us-the-freedom-to-steal/#comment-6</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[georgekhasin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advancedhindsight.wordpress.com/?p=198#comment-6</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I personally am not sure that uneasiness alone can explain why people believe that downloading films- as oppose to streaming them- is illegal. I would rather agree with the idea that people consider downloading as illegal to avoid looking incompetent.

I would even go further and claim that people consider downloading illegal because of what Dan Ariely and others call &quot;self - herding&quot; - that is, the tendency of people to remember and follow blindly their past decisions and, I would add, forget the reasons that lead them to make these decisions in first place.

How is this idea related to the post? Well, I believe that when people are asked whether they think that downloading is legal and moral they look at their past and try to find an incident in which they, themselves,  downloaded some content. When they find there isn&#039;t such an  incident, they conclude that their &quot;past-self&quot; probably had a good, moral reason not to download and therefore they think that it is more illegal than streaming. In reality, the reason they never downloaded is solely because they had no idea how to do it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally am not sure that uneasiness alone can explain why people believe that downloading films- as oppose to streaming them- is illegal. I would rather agree with the idea that people consider downloading as illegal to avoid looking incompetent.</p>
<p>I would even go further and claim that people consider downloading illegal because of what Dan Ariely and others call &#8220;self &#8211; herding&#8221; &#8211; that is, the tendency of people to remember and follow blindly their past decisions and, I would add, forget the reasons that lead them to make these decisions in first place.</p>
<p>How is this idea related to the post? Well, I believe that when people are asked whether they think that downloading is legal and moral they look at their past and try to find an incident in which they, themselves,  downloaded some content. When they find there isn&#8217;t such an  incident, they conclude that their &#8220;past-self&#8221; probably had a good, moral reason not to download and therefore they think that it is more illegal than streaming. In reality, the reason they never downloaded is solely because they had no idea how to do it.</p>
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